The case "Habit"; abusing game mechanics

Darwin just told me that i would be banned by now if i wouldnt lead a faction
I dont want to get special treatement just cause im leading the only faction alife on the server for the time beeing, but i got to say a fiew words to this.
I can say of myself im a fair player. im never abusing anything there is to abuse until yesterday.
ill explain the situation.
it was like 10 am for me, pretty late in the night for most of the servermember. Only me, nsumasterchief, davidfairclough and like 2 other uninvolved persons were online.
I was bored and david came to my base, told me that he found the base of masterchief. By that time the "no raiding rule" wasnt up yet, we had a big discussion with chivers about that which lasted for at least one and a half our about raiding, so i can asure u guys who will flame now "raiding wasnt allowed" ur mistaken, this was legit. when we came close to nsumasterchiefs base we started croaching and i can say of myself im pretty good in not beeing seen, but well somehow masterchief saw david and came closer, when he came to close i stopped pushing my shiftbutton and it seems he saw me then and thought i was warping to david by abusing adminpowers, whatever, i didnt. he asked what we are doing and why i warped there, by that time i didnt even know what he meant about warping, i thought he know that i dont have adminpowers or whatever, i just replied im trying to get a way in to tell him about his security lags. me told us to leave pretty unfriendly and since i love beeing and asshole i asked him, since he has lots of money in the iconomy, if he wasnt up to pay me 100coins a week that he wont get in troubles with my faction. he denied pretty unfriendly, understandable when he thought i was just about to abuse adminpowers and i wont hold that against him. so well we went away by then i told david that ill get there lateron alone, since masterchief didnt seem to have any armour and i trust my pvp skills enough to take him out alone if he will cause troubles to me, my plan baiscly was to stay unseen until he opens the "hidden chest" everyone has. since ive heard he mined alot i saw lots of vlue in doing that. so my time came, last time he saw me was like 1,5 hrs ago and i went to his base again, croaching. i found a lack of secureity on the spot in his hill. made a 2*1 jole to get into the top floor of his base. i saw his name in the floor under me, searching coraching for a way to get down and found it. to my bad nsumasterchief was standing in the middle of the room and finally saw me when i stopped pushing the shiftbutton to take him out since he had obsidianblocks in his hand which are very useful for me 2 and hard to get. i run to him, he watched me right in the face and logged off. obvsly he saw me. i hoped he would get later on again, i was more or less coraching, getting flamed by ballnazor as usual, so nothing special and was looking for his hidden chest, mb i could find it out to hide even better and knock him right out when he opened it for me. well i spent like 2 hrs in his base, he didnt logg back in and well what was my bad, and made be beeing accused of abusing gamemechanics. Masterchief has 2 4x3 rooms both covered by dirtblocks with a door and cobble+obsidian combinations. i dug through the townied cobblewall and was able to open the chest. took what was of value for me and tried to get to the 2nd one. the 2nd one was harder. i would have to dig through the wall and remove 2 dirtblocks which is impossible in towny and i left the base.
when i logged in today chivers asked me how i got the loot. i told him i will show him when he tps me there, said, done. he told me its abusing gamemechanics. i asked him what would be now if i just pretend it wasnt me, like 90% of the player in the server would do he said nsumasterchief saw me in here. well then i told him that in my opinion removing blocks in towny while standing in wilderness urself would be abusing gamemachins 2 then and still everyone does. he just said that everyone does it, its right, and we kinda agreed all on it that this is legal.
i instant admit that i was wrong then but i cant give it back since i used it already and i wait for my punishment he just asked me what i think will happen. i just said like "hmm i dont know, i dont think ill be banned since i never did anything against the rules yet" and he left it be.
when i was asking if what masterchief did isnt abusing mechanics 2 since he logged off to avoid dying and losing his stuff chivers just told me that he didnt see me and just wanned to go to sleep.
when i was saying them "wait didnt u just tell me masterchief saw me in here, thatswhy im getting troubles?" he didnt say something for like 5 minutes and i just got very angry trying to talk to him again ingame but he didnt say anything.
another 5 minutes later darwin joins our teamspeak room and told me that i would be banned by now if i wouldnt lead a faction and in my eyes its totally unfair to say something like that.
i might raid much when it was legit. i might be a troll and like provoking ppl but thats all not against the rules. i might be the most hated player on this server, even more than colin, still all i do was in rules until this not to big thingy since everyone would do the same, if he would have the knowledge about the game i have.
i feel very bad about this cause i really like you guys and nothing against chivers hes just doing his adminjob but i think the desicion making got to much influence of the community which is just hating me, for peeing the cruel character i choosed to play, basicly only for the reason cause we had to wait to know how towny works like forever and for the 2nd reason that 90% of the server seems to be lieing guys who are build very close to the water and just love to whine, since its 100% the fault of the guy who raided than the own fault.
still i love to play with my faction even when everyday some other guy tries to betray us. its fun and i love the basic members of this faction
still im asking you for no special treatment. if u really think i have done enough wrong to be banned if i wouldnt lead a faction, just go for it and do it. just dont close my faction, put someone else in charge, me myself would suggest diabloz since he put really much afford in the place we are building.
i never ment to harm anyone or make u guys hating the game.
if i wont get banned i still can promise u guys i wont give up my cruel character. but ill do my best to do everything in rules and i wont loot a chest again when its surrounded by townys.

Make the section describing you breaking in clearer please. I know you are German, but please try because I can't make heads or tails of it.

Sevyn wrote:Make the section describing you breaking in clearer please. I know you are German, but please try because I can't make heads or tails of it.

If it's a language thing and not a wording thing, Google Translate might help.

Sevyn wrote:Make the section describing you breaking in clearer please. I know you are German, but please try because I can't make heads or tails of it.

hmm? sorry dont know what u want

i feel misunderstood cause im basicly the only guy who is roleplaying. i want ppl to hate me ingame but they just take it out to the forum where shouldnt be the place for it. and in my eyes the mods/admins just react of the influence of the community. i ask like 90% of my actions an admin/mod before if that would be legit cause i know my name in the community doesnt stand for anyhting good. and it seems like the serverrunning guys just waited for something to punish me harder.
a ban would be less painful than telling me im just not banned cause i have a special position

I know this doesn't really involve me but I just want to say:

Habit, you aren't roleplaying. Roleplaying is going around talking to and meeting people. Not saying "I'm a cruel king" and killing people. Even if that were so, a cruel king wouldn't be out terrorizing others as much as he would be making the lives of his people miserable.

Roleplaying is doing what Adrian and I did one day. He showed up on his way back from spawn, compeltely in character, with an "AHOY MATEY" said in local chat. I then proceeded to respond in kind but simply chatting with him, both of us developing our "character". It was completely spontaneous and in the end no one was killed or raided or anything. It was simple roleplaying, he took the role of a pirate captain who had mysteriously been seperated from his ship(this was right after the economy opened and everyone was sent back to spawn) and I was the peasant who was tending to his farm and building a house.

That is what roleplaying is. Not just saying "This is my character. I do what I want now."

KhaosLeper wrote:I know this doesn't really involve me but I just want to say:

Habit, you aren't roleplaying. Roleplaying is going around talking to and meeting people. Not saying "I'm a cruel king" and killing people. Even if that were so, a cruel king wouldn't be out terrorizing others as much as he would be making the lives of his people miserable.

Roleplaying is doing what Adrian and I did one day. He showed up on his way back from spawn, compeltely in character, with an "AHOY MATEY" said in local chat. I then proceeded to respond in kind but simply chatting with him, both of us developing our "character". It was completely spontaneous and in the end no one was killed or raided or anything. It was simple roleplaying, he took the role of a pirate captain who had mysteriously been seperated from his ship(this was right after the economy opened and everyone was sent back to spawn) and I was the peasant who was tending to his farm and building a house.

That is what roleplaying is. Not just saying "This is my character. I do what I want now."

u all got this wrong. i never killed random person, whoever i killed randomly plz post the situation in here.
whenever i go arround and see vegabondcities im offering them peace with us when they pay me a little amount of money, if they dont do it i show em my power by raiding them once and giving them 2 more days to think about the offer before they will get raided again.
the only guys i would kill randomly while i meet them are pirates, because of the story my faction developed in 2.0 we consider us as oponnents of the pirates. whenever i see a single vegabond walking across my way i ask them if they have something they want to give to the "one king" i could need. if they tell me they have nothing i leave them. if they wear like a piece of diamondarmor i tell them what i want and if they wont give it to me then, then i would kill them.
the problem is somehow i got a more cruel name and whenever i see a little group of ppl they think like "ahhhhhhhh its habit" and try to get me down even before i can talk to them, what most of the time ends in them logging off, when not they die and i decide to back off the next time i see them cause they at least died. but what makes me angry are those offloggers, first they try to kill me, get value of me and when they notice that will end bad they just log. they go on my list then and i would "random kill" them the next time i see them. thatswhy the igors hate me so much cause when 3.0 just started up basicly all members (3) raided us and when we saw them we run with 8 ppl to them, kinda surrounded them and they logged off all 3.

mb u guys give me a fair chance when u see me ingame and just dont rageattack me as soon u see my name

I've never rage attacked you so please don't lump me in with those that do, in fact the only time I've ever seen you in game was in 2.0 and you rage attacked me because they weren't going to cuboid your wall. But that is past. I was more or less simply pointing out that just saying "This is my character. I do this." isn't roleplaying.

No maybe you are going around offering protection to people but the only thing that has ever been mentioned in game is the "I'm a cruel king" business and that, while it has a basic premise, is only a basic thing for roleplaying.

KhaosLeper wrote:I've never rage attacked you so please don't lump me in with those that do, in fact the only time I've ever seen you in game was in 2.0 and you rage attacked me because they weren't going to cuboid your wall. But that is past. I was more or less simply pointing out that just saying "This is my character. I do this." isn't roleplaying.

No maybe you are going around offering protection to people but the only thing that has ever been mentioned in game is the "I'm a cruel king" business and that, while it has a basic premise, is only a basic thing for roleplaying.

i talk in lokal chat when i offer that usually cause when i say in ooc like "hey give me 100 coins and ull be save" noone would accept then cause it would show the "small penis" to everyone else in that chat u know?
as far as i know i didnt kill at all in 2.0 unless ballnazor and naave just cause they raided us all the time. i was only busy building. my bad image came from the temporary map where i really just killed everyone i saw, burned trees down, etc. cause theres nothing else i could do on the temp map. building a base would be useless so i just pvped. that kinda gave me my image cause pll neither cant sepereate temp map from normal map, and playing my charakter(pretending to be the best etc, talking everyones kingdom down) to insuliting me privat etc, what basicly happens all the time^^

A quick response to hazzy and Sevyn, you don't understand how difficult having a second language is. Google translate would likely make it sound even worse than it is right now, and he might not have perfect sentence structure either.
While German isn't one of the love languages it is still based off of Latin to my knowledge, and a lot of things in Latin are quite different. Double negatives and all this are allowed. I understand you have trouble making out what he is saying, but I got it pretty quickly so if you really need a summary.

Habit feels that he is being somewhat attacked (verbally) by other players outside of the game, and people are taking everything he does as a personal attack on themselves. Masterchief logged when about to get killed and then whines because habit had two hours to figure out a way into his chests. Habit's character is supposed to be the king that is going to be in everyone's "crosshairs," and the problem is that he is told he isn't role playing. (my note on this)[People that are walking around talking in old age language are not roleplaying, if there job is an assassin wouldn't it make sense for him/her to be sneaking around killing people in order to get their loot. Just like a cruel king should be fighting, raiding, attacking other towns and their people. He does stay in character.] He in general feels that he did nothing wrong and doesn't understand the fact that out of game he is instantly hated.

(my notes again)
I actually notice that people can't act nice to each other outside of the game, people lose track of the fact that this is a game. I understand that people really get into the game (and no one is stopping you), but being mean to people outside of the game is a little far. I don't know if many of you play sports or sports fans, but have you ever heard leave it out on the field. Don't carry the burden that habit raided you and took your stuff and send him a pm calling him a dick or such. That kinda crap is just pointless. If you are that deeply affected by the things that happen in this server, honestly, you need to take a break.

@ivanelk

I understand learning a second language, I was actually surprised Habit could write that well. I am currently learning Mandarin and it is really difficult.

The part I was confused about is how he actually got in the chest. People are saying he abused the game mechanics but it seems like it was towny'd but he figured out how to break in. I am just interested in the how part of this, and that is the crux of the matter.

basically, if a Chest has only 2 block on it to "protect" the chest, because the blocks are townyed and cannot be destroyed. it does not allow a player to access the chest there is no possible way to enter a chest with 2 blocks on it with towny, however;
due to the nature of towny, blocks destroy and placed will exist for less then a second, people use this to "lagg" over walls, or high defences, Similarly a block broken will not exist for 1 second, meaning after a block is destroyed, depending on the server and player lagg, the block will not exist for a period of time, nsmasterchief had only 1 block on his chest, as he destroyed 1 block prior to noticing habit and logging off before being killed (again abusing game mechanics), thus if habit destroyed the 1 block on the chest and quickly right clicked the chest he could easily enter the chest. and have access to all of masterchief's goods, however if masterchief had not logged out and stayed to fight habit things would have been different
habit would have just taken what masterchief had in his inventory and retreated (from being injured in battle --> rping) and masterchief would of had his chest.

what it comes down to is if destroying a block and quickly accessing the chest because master chief logged off and forgot to place the other block back is abusing game mechanics or;

is logging off while in a battle and forgetting that u forgot to place 1 block back on the chest and then whining how habit " hacked" his way into a chest is abusing game mechanics (this method is similar to escaping townyd traps, wholes, and destroying blocks out side of a townyd area.)

this is where an admin need to step in and clear this situation.

if theres a block on the chest theres no way to get in the chest in towny. they fixed this, i tried it myself. the problem was he didnt place a block on the chest at all and hoped, since its in a room i cant enter, that would be enough. i destroyed one block of the wall, where the chest was behind and rightclicked on the chest. and got easy acsess to the things in it. in my eyes it was just nsumasterchief beeing to sloppy with it and he should learn out of this mistake since everyone could do this, and would do this.
ok it is abusing game mechanics, i wont do it again, but i feel that its a way bigger thing, because it was "habit" who did it. guys "cheating" in our base 24/7, logging off after they got their loot, griefing etc, no biggy. but when habit abuses gamemechanics 1st time its a big thing. thats the biggest problem for me. admins acting cause the community doesnt like me. admins should judge my actions, not my bad name. i did nothing wrong before

Habit wrote:if theres a block on the chest theres no way to get in the chest in towny. they fixed this, i tried it myself. the problem was he didnt place a block on the chest at all and hoped, since its in a room i cant enter, that would be enough. i destroyed one block of the wall, where the chest was behind and rightclicked on the chest. and got easy acsess to the things in it. in my eyes it was just nsumasterchief beeing to sloppy with it and he should learn out of this mistake since everyone could do this, and would do this.
ok it is abusing game mechanics, i wont do it again, but i feel that its a way bigger thing, because it was "habit" who did it. guys "cheating" in our base 24/7, logging off after they got their loot, griefing etc, no biggy. but when habit abuses gamemechanics 1st time its a big thing. thats the biggest problem for me. admins acting cause the community doesnt like me. admins should judge my actions, not my bad name. i did nothing wrong before

Chivers had said this was allowed and the fact is the chest was uncovered is master chief's fault.
I would like to say though the entire premise of raiding would be broken at this point if it wasn't for these glitches. You can make a perfectly guarded chest, it isn't hard, but you have to take precautions which master chief didn't. Me and habit were faced with an impossible to raid chest, but out of sheer awesomeness we manage to get at it *sneak ftw.* There is significant amount of strategy involved in raiding, but if you get raided it is automatically "you cheated." Human error is the top problem when it comes to guarding your chests. Forgetting to cover them, let them be too close to the wilderness, etc... etc... are all major problems.

ivanelk wrote:

Habit wrote:if theres a block on the chest theres no way to get in the chest in towny. they fixed this, i tried it myself. the problem was he didnt place a block on the chest at all and hoped, since its in a room i cant enter, that would be enough. i destroyed one block of the wall, where the chest was behind and rightclicked on the chest. and got easy acsess to the things in it. in my eyes it was just nsumasterchief beeing to sloppy with it and he should learn out of this mistake since everyone could do this, and would do this.
ok it is abusing game mechanics, i wont do it again, but i feel that its a way bigger thing, because it was "habit" who did it. guys "cheating" in our base 24/7, logging off after they got their loot, griefing etc, no biggy. but when habit abuses gamemechanics 1st time its a big thing. thats the biggest problem for me. admins acting cause the community doesnt like me. admins should judge my actions, not my bad name. i did nothing wrong before

Chivers had said this was allowed and the fact is the chest was uncovered is master chief's fault.
I would like to say though the entire premise of raiding would be broken at this point if it wasn't for these glitches. You can make a perfectly guarded chest, it isn't hard, but you have to take precautions which master chief didn't. Me and habit were faced with an impossible to raid chest, but out of sheer awesomeness we manage to get at it *sneak ftw.* There is significant amount of strategy involved in raiding, but if you get raided it is automatically "you cheated." Human error is the top problem when it comes to guarding your chests. Forgetting to cover them, let them be too close to the wilderness, etc... etc... are all major problems.

If it was uncovered and your were able to break the wall (if the walls wasn't towny'd) your free to go.

Sevyn wrote:

ivanelk wrote:

Habit wrote:if theres a block on the chest theres no way to get in the chest in towny. they fixed this, i tried it myself. the problem was he didnt place a block on the chest at all and hoped, since its in a room i cant enter, that would be enough. i destroyed one block of the wall, where the chest was behind and rightclicked on the chest. and got easy acsess to the things in it. in my eyes it was just nsumasterchief beeing to sloppy with it and he should learn out of this mistake since everyone could do this, and would do this.
ok it is abusing game mechanics, i wont do it again, but i feel that its a way bigger thing, because it was "habit" who did it. guys "cheating" in our base 24/7, logging off after they got their loot, griefing etc, no biggy. but when habit abuses gamemechanics 1st time its a big thing. thats the biggest problem for me. admins acting cause the community doesnt like me. admins should judge my actions, not my bad name. i did nothing wrong before

Chivers had said this was allowed and the fact is the chest was uncovered is master chief's fault.
I would like to say though the entire premise of raiding would be broken at this point if it wasn't for these glitches. You can make a perfectly guarded chest, it isn't hard, but you have to take precautions which master chief didn't. Me and habit were faced with an impossible to raid chest, but out of sheer awesomeness we manage to get at it *sneak ftw.* There is significant amount of strategy involved in raiding, but if you get raided it is automatically "you cheated." Human error is the top problem when it comes to guarding your chests. Forgetting to cover them, let them be too close to the wilderness, etc... etc... are all major problems.

If it was uncovered and your were able to break the wall (if the walls wasn't towny'd) your free to go.

it was covered with towny and i abused "the lag" to get in since someone told me the block should never be gone.
i am guilty in this case i just think admins are overreaction as soon my name shows up

Sevyn wrote:

ivanelk wrote:

Habit wrote:if theres a block on the chest theres no way to get in the chest in towny. they fixed this, i tried it myself. the problem was he didnt place a block on the chest at all and hoped, since its in a room i cant enter, that would be enough. i destroyed one block of the wall, where the chest was behind and rightclicked on the chest. and got easy acsess to the things in it. in my eyes it was just nsumasterchief beeing to sloppy with it and he should learn out of this mistake since everyone could do this, and would do this.
ok it is abusing game mechanics, i wont do it again, but i feel that its a way bigger thing, because it was "habit" who did it. guys "cheating" in our base 24/7, logging off after they got their loot, griefing etc, no biggy. but when habit abuses gamemechanics 1st time its a big thing. thats the biggest problem for me. admins acting cause the community doesnt like me. admins should judge my actions, not my bad name. i did nothing wrong before

Chivers had said this was allowed and the fact is the chest was uncovered is master chief's fault.
I would like to say though the entire premise of raiding would be broken at this point if it wasn't for these glitches. You can make a perfectly guarded chest, it isn't hard, but you have to take precautions which master chief didn't. Me and habit were faced with an impossible to raid chest, but out of sheer awesomeness we manage to get at it *sneak ftw.* There is significant amount of strategy involved in raiding, but if you get raided it is automatically "you cheated." Human error is the top problem when it comes to guarding your chests. Forgetting to cover them, let them be too close to the wilderness, etc... etc... are all major problems.

If it was uncovered and your were able to break the wall (if the walls wasn't towny'd) your free to go.

I can show you what he did, it isn't that he broke the walls permanently but since the chests were uncovered when he broke a block and right clicked fast enough he could access the chest. People might want to consider once again making precautions.